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General => General => Topic started by: Jimmy on May 03, 2011, 05:29:49 AM
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I know politic is off-limit but it's canadian politic so no real controversy here....
Am I the only Canadians here to be shock by the results today? Seriously I don't understand at all, even as a theorical point of view that doesn't make sense...
First be prepare the Reform Party will be back tomorrow... The Tories/Reform fusion was always a joke, they aren't a minority governement anymore. So the door will be fully open to the religious rights : abortion will be criminalize again, 14 years old will go in adult prison, the corporation will pay even less taxes and will get a ton of subventions, the preservation of the environment is over, the forest industry is dead for good and our province will loose most of its acquired rights. To resume simply : tomorrow the canadian idealism will start dying welcome to Canada/USA :(
secondly, what the hell happen to the French Canadian did they loose all their common sense in a week? Do they really thing a bunch of unknown deputy with no experience (even me I have more political experience than most of them) will be able to defend our province against the attack of the Reform Party? Where is the common sense when you vote for someone you don't know and never heard of? Seriously it's like if Le party Québec Solidaire would win the next provincial election... that doesn't make sense. What the point of jumping in a bandwagon for crying out loud? Fuck this isn't American Idol, but real life. Do people realized the future consequences of this? I guess not...
The partial results (or end result depending of the hour you will read that) (http://elections.radio-canada.ca/elections/federales2011/resultats/html/Resultats.html)
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I've written many different posts, only to delete them.
I'll just say this:
I personally don't think this is a disaster at all. The disparition of the Bloc couldn't come soon enough. The rise of the Conservatives is a bit unnerving, yet I much prefer this to NDP, or even the Liberals, taking over.
We'll see what they do with that majority. As of now, I'm more than willing to give them a chance.
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It's a 4 years minimum chance, in politic this is long and now the Reform Party had a non-experienced opposition in front of them. Yes I'm a nationalist I'm proud to have fought for my country since 25 years, so the complete shutout of the Bloc Quebecois shock me and frighten me for the years to come. But with that said I would have taken the Liberal Party as the oposition, even if I will always hate them for what they did to us, at least they were experienced and able to control the Reform Party....
Remember the disater that happen the last time the French Canadian jumped in a bandwagon? The ADQ was the oposition, it was a joke and the Liberal Party was able to do everything they wanted to do.... Now imagine the same experience but 100 times worst :(
I haven't be depressed like that since the day Meech was rejected :(
I've written many different posts, only to delete them.
Stop deleting them :tease:
Do like me and sound like a ranting guy :laugh:
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I'll admit from reading what you just written that I am much less "politicized" than you are. To be honest with you, all this doesn't really interest me much at all. To me, it's pretty all the same.
Change one crook for another crook, what do you get? A crook.
Like I said, we'll see what happens.
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All I know is that if Donald Trump becomes president, I need to find a new country! :laugh:
I don't know enough about the particulars to comment intelligently on your post Jimmy. But, I'll hope for the best for your country.
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Except for the Alberta I'm sure everybody here will see a really tough four years. The only thing I will be able to say to the complainers in those years will be that I didn't vote for the Reform Party or the NPD...
I can't even thing at a comparaison since nothing like that as ever happen here in our country... The oil cowboys and the religious rights is in power, sadly it wasn't a dream.
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Change one crook for another crook, what do you get? A crook.
This, unfortunately is the reality we all face. They are all in it for themselves, their buddies and to maintain their own power. They don't give a rat's ass about the common man or the long term future of their country (this is not directed at Canadian politicians, but ALL politicians)!
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Change one crook for another crook, what do you get? A crook.
This, unfortunately is the reality we all face. They are all in it for themselves, their buddies and to maintain their own power. They don't give a rat's ass about the common man or the long term future of their country (this is not directed at Canadian politicians, but ALL politicians)!
Correct,
and how did this happen?
Voters usually don't appreciate to be told the naked truth, so they vote for the guy that hides best what he's actually going to do. And if this is the guy with the better optics the election is a safe bet.
As long as politicians are confronted with impeachments for otherwise completely private affairs (e.g. extra-marital sex) or even have to publicly prove that they are born in a certain country you will only very hardly find the best to do that job. You will get those stubborn crooks that don't care if their private lives get turned inside-out as long as they get enough money back.
If the moral "standards" applied for becoming a politician would be applied in "normal" life, half the world would immediately lose their jobs, and the other half would have to go about half a week later for blatantly lying.
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Correct,
and how did this happen?
Well, it's been going on for decades in this country as people have slowly perverted the purpose of government and created a society that has become dependent upon it. We have done it to ourselves!
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You know the more I think about this result the most one of my dream seem to be possible, I think Sebastien will understand what is this dream...
The Canada will be a mess, we will see that finally the federation isn't viable and we will see how the French Canadian aren't respected in it (even if we are the one who built and has discovered this country). In two years the same thing will happen with our provincial governement and the nationalist movement with a strong leader will be back in force in the Province where it is supposed to be.
This is my last post about this because it's a mined field and I don't want to hurt our Canadian members with our fight who isn't against them but for us.
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You know the more I think about this result the most one of my dream seem to be possible, I think Sebastien will understand what is this dream...
I think anybody in Canada will know what this dream or yours is. Can't say I agree with it, but I won't get into this discussion. I don't feel strongly enough one way or another to actually form a valid opinion.
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Where I get so frustrated is the discussion of the difference in the parties' values/agendas or whatever you want to call them and the belief that there is only one right answer.
None of us knows anyone wasn't alive 200 years ago and unless you were don't know how things worked back then (you can only read what others say happened, but whoever writes the history controls the history). Even stories passed down within families change over time. I don't know if mud-slinging was as common as it is today, and I don't know what sort of values they had back then (ie: the ever-ready debate as to whether my countries founding fathers used a strict interpretation between "church and state" or if they really did pray before meetings (as one example). However, the different parties were created because there are people in mine and any country that believes in those individual sets of values else every election would be a 99% landslide.
One of the main issues for "the people" is that when one of heavily influenced by the values of a single party, they can't accept that values of the other party are just as legitimate, and in a day where everything said by anyone of importance is at your fingertips, and they themselves are acting in the same "everyone should follow me because your ideas are stupid" way it only influences the people more to divide.
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I'm mostly glad that it is a majority government so we won't have to vote again in another year and a half. Four elections in the past 7 years is a ridiculous waste of taxpayer money. I'm also ecstatic at the disintegration of the Bloc as a party whose mandate is to separate from the country has no business making decisions in Ottawa. If they want to confine themselves to provincial politics...fine. Disband? Even better!
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One of the main issues for "the people" is that when one of heavily influenced by the values of a single party, they can't accept that values of the other party are just as legitimate, and in a day where everything said by anyone of importance is at your fingertips, and they themselves are acting in the same "everyone should follow me because your ideas are stupid" way it only influences the people more to divide.
What drives me crazy is the incredible hypocrisy.
Republicans today are wailing about raising the debt ceiling, but had no problem doing it when Bush was President.
Three years ago leaders of the Democrat Party were railing President Bush over the cost of gasoline (which was about $3.00/gallon at the time). Today, that same Democrat Party not only is not railing the current President about high gasoline prices (now at $4.00/gallon) but is actually floating reasons why gas prices at this level are a good thing, e.g., forcing people to drive less, forcing companies to seriously pursue "green" energy solutions, etc.
What the hell difference does it make whose sitting in the White House?
This is why I say, all politicians are only interested in serving themselves and maintaining their own power, and the hell with the rest of us!
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I'm also ecstatic at the disintegration of the Bloc as a party whose mandate is to separate from the country.
Kevin contrary to what's Steven Harper and Jean Chretien before him like to repeat over and over it was never the party raison d'être. The party was formed to defend the French Canadian interest in the Canada after the slap in the face the rest of the Canada gave us with the rejection of the Meech Lake agreement (Lucien Bouchard was not even a nationalist at that time). There was nothing bad in that as there was nothing bad when the Reform party was formed to defend the interest of the Province of Alberta (it was a regional party too before the masquerade that is the fusion with the Conservative party). It isn't their mandate and it never was, repeated a falsehood over and over don't make the untruthfulness truthfulness. This is just the kind of half truth that is repeated frequently in the english part of the country because it's an easy button to push...
Four elections in the past 7 years is a ridiculous waste of taxpayer money.
Something that wouldn't happen if Harper would have been able to cooperate with the 3 others parties. Most of the countries of the world are able to exist with political coalitions and more often than not in a better way than here. Why? Because they have learned to cooperate and share the power in the best interest of the citizens and not the interest of a party or a minority. Also for me overthrow a government because of its lack of respect for the Parlement (which is like lying and disrespecting the canadian population) isn't a waste of money. It's the reason why the government was overthrown and not because of the budget, contrary to what Harper said during the campaign no vote was made on the budget since this vote would have happen after the confidence motion vote presented by the Liberal party and the government has lost the confidence of the Parlement with it. So there was no government after it and by consequent no budget.
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Four elections in the past 7 years is a ridiculous waste of taxpayer money.
Something that wouldn't happen if Harper would have been able to cooperate with the 3 others parties.
There is no requirement for the party in power and those who are not to cooperate. That's why they are called the 'opposition'. Political parties often have polar opposite ideologies so to expect them to play nice is pure fantasy. The non confidence vote is nothing more than a tool for the opposition party to topple the government over an issue like the budget because they believe they may succeed in a quick election. This of course was the downfall of Ignatieff (who couldn't even win his own riding) and the entire Liberal party. Some are bemoaning the majority government but bear in mind the Conservatives never called for this election... careful what you wish for.
Personally for me since the Tories have been in power I have seen a reduction of 2% of the GST, and our country recovered from the global recession better than just about any other country on the planet. For that they have bought at least another 4 years of my support.
As far as the Bloc goes, I don't want this to turn into a French Vs. English argument because I have nothing but respect for the people of Quebec, however the Bloc's attempt to protect Quebec's interests also included their support of independence from the rest of Canada during a 1995 referendum which failed as it turns out the people of Quebec did not have the same appetite for sovereignty as the BQ party did. I also don't feel Meech Lake was a slap in the face of Quebec. It failed because of Quebec's insistence to be considered a 'distinct' society which by all means they are, but so are the fine people of Newfoundland and the other maritime provinces, as are the mostly indigenous population of Nunavut and the Northwest Territories and and so on throughout the country. Meech lake would have granted Quebec 'special' status which did not sit well with the rest of the nation and that is why it failed.
I just feel the principles of the BQ are not representative of the views of the majority of the Quebec population and this election confirmed it. While all political parties are self serving, including our new majority Tories, they at least view all provinces and territories as equals.
It is far too easy to get carried away in political debates so I will end my commentary now. :-X
KC
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I didn't want to get involved in this discussion because I have a good idea how it's gonna end but there's one thing I'd like to reply to.
KC, I do agree that Canada did better than most countries in the recession but I don't really think our government has anything to do with that. I believe it was easier to recover simply because our bank system is better, safer and prevented us from getting as deep in sh.. as other countries.
I don't know much about world economy and maybe the government made some decisions that helped, I certainly won't deny it's possible but I'm tired of politicians, any of them, taking all the credit for something in which they only played a small role.
Jimmy, I think you know my favorite "option" is the same as yours, and like you said, I believe it's something that will be have to be done here. I don't believe that Bloc Québécois has won the majority of seats in Quebec in the last 20 years mainly because of the separatists (sovereignists or whatever else people want to call us, to me it's all the same) because if it was the case then we would have won a referendum. In all objectivity, we have to accept that many people voted for them although they don't want separation. Why ? Because it was their only option, NPD didn't look like a serious option, the conservatives don't really share our values and we're also prejudiced about them because of the reform party, and people were just tired of the Liberals.
But today it's different, people still don't want to vote for the conservatives or the Liberals but the NDP does look more appealing than before while it's becoming obvious that there's no point in having Bloc Québécois in Ottawa if we're not ready to have another referendum and win it. I don't think we should blame people for the orange wave, change his good sometimes.
I do not like the conservatives any more than you. I hate that they only care about economy, have no concern for science and environment. I also dislike the way they control information because they're afraid of answering questions. But at the same time, I think it's a good thing because I've always believed that Stephen Harper is the best asset of the separatists, the longer he's in power and does things the way he wants, the more people will get fed up with and maybe they'll vote Yes on the next referendum.
In my opinion, if one thing has been proved with the last 7 elections and the result of the last one is that Canada just doesn't work the way it is, there's always gonna be a cleavage between the west and the east with the center sorta caught on its own while the Atlantic is trying to survive in a Canada that doesn't give a damn about them more than it does about us.
We've been lazy since 1995, in a way we had the possibility to vote for sovereignty without actually doing it and we sorta of let things go to sleep. Maybe it's time we shake ourselves.
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I just feel the principles of the BQ are not representative of the views of the majority of the Quebec population and this election confirmed it.
Funny how today most people who vote for the NPD monday here made it very clear that it wasn't a vote against the Québec sovereignty but a protestation vote against old politician (anyway, for us French Canadians the Bloc Québécois doesn't equal what you think it means in the rest of Canada. But I can understand the wrong perception due to the propaganda campaign in the ango-canadian medias) ... Of course, watching french television help when come the time to get straight facts on the subject...
There is no requirement for the party in power and those who are not to cooperate. That's why they are called the 'opposition'.
You forget one fact in your phrase : the oposition was in fact the majority. If the minority government don't want to cooperate it isn't a surprise if he is overturned...
The non confidence vote is nothing more than a tool for the opposition party to topple the government over an issue like the budget
As I said the motion wasn't about the budget. It was because the government lied to the House of Commons wich is certainly not a trivial issue in politics and democraty.
This of course was the downfall of Ignatieff (who couldn't even win his own riding) and the entire Liberal party.
Wich is due to the shameful smear campaign done by the Reform Party, something disgusting, disgraceful and never seen in our country politics. A total lack of class that we don't even see here in municipal politic, anyone backing this way of doing politics must be ashamed of themselves. This is the US way of doing politic and, as much I respect them, this contemptible way of doing politic as nothing to do here.
Personally for me since the Tories have been in power I have seen a reduction of 2% of the GST, and our country recovered from the global recession better than just about any other country on the planet.
Are you serious? really? a taxes reduction of 2% is enough for you to vote for a party... WOW! God I "like" the me, me, me attitude. We have lost all our international credibility with him in power but it's nothing the GST decreased by 2%, we are involved in two wars that doesn't concern us but it's nothing the GST decreased by 2%, they spent million of dollars for two days but it's nothing the GST decreased by 2%, we will spend billion of dollars for uneeded fighting planes but it's nothing the GST decreased by 2%, a lot of collaborators of the Harper government are caught in scandal but it's nothing the GST decreased by 2%, the oil industry get billion of dollar in subvention it doesn't need but it's nothing the GST decreased by 2%, company taxes decrease at a ridicule level while those of the population increase but it's nothing the GST decreased by 2%, the religious right dictate the government agenda but it's nothing the GST decreased by 2%, ... Pathethic
BTW the only reason why we weren't hit as strongly by the recession is because our banking system is regulated more strictly than everywhere in the world. Steven Harper and the Conservative party had nothing to do with this
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I didn't want to get involved in this discussion because I have a good idea how it's gonna end
It's a friend discussion, I sure don't expect it to turn badly. I just feel sad for the Anglo-Canadian because they never get the straight facts on this issue because of their medias that like to push the "scary separatist will come to drink your blood" button.
I don't believe that Bloc Québécois has won the majority of seats in Quebec in the last 20 years mainly because of the separatists (sovereignists or whatever else people want to call us, to me it's all the same) because if it was the case then we would have won a referendum.
This is why I say the raison d'être of the Bloc Québécois is the defense of the French Canadian interest in the ROC and not the Quebec sovereignty.
I think it's a good thing because I've always believed that Stephen Harper is the best asset of the separatists, the longer he's in power and does things the way he wants, the more people will get fed up with and maybe they'll vote Yes on the next referendum.
This is exactly what I thing too ;D
We've been lazy since 1995, in a way we had the possibility to vote for sovereignty without actually doing it and we sorta of let things go to sleep. Maybe it's time we shake ourselves.
The way I see it is that many of us were demoralized by the way the federal had cheated and broken laws to win something that isn't their bussiness (even with that we almost won). Myself I was completly disgusted by anything politics related for two years after that... In twenty years at most it will be done (unless the ROC send the army here again to scare the population) and finally this country where we were always treated as second class citizen won't exist anymore. Quite sad when we think that if the Canada exist it's because of us the French Canadians...
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@Jimmy: One thing about the medias. Keep in mind that our medias will only report about the press in the ROC when it's bad about us. They never report on anything else about Canada so although the bad stuff is bad, there may not be as much of it as we feel. Just because it's all we hear about doesn't mean there is that much of it.
@Jimmy & KC: I'm not so sure Ignatieff and his campaing should bear all the blame for their defeat. I think the Liberals as a whole have to take a big part of the responsability. Most of the people who became prime ministers of Canada had a political career before. Jean Chretien had been there forever before becoming leader of the Liberals and then Premier. Stephen Harper has been in politics for a long time too.
I think the Liberals expected Ignatieff to be their savier and that was a stupid mistake. You can't take a guy nobody has ever heard of and say "Hey, here's the guy, you don't know him but it's ok, choose him as your leader for four years anyway". It doesn't work that way. Becoming Premier of any country is something you earn over years, not in 35 days.
Despite everything that has happened in recent years in Canada the Liberals believed that they deserved to be in power, that it was due to them and that not being there was only episodic and that it would come back because they believed it was natural.
They took the worst beating in their history not because of one person, they did because they took things for granted, they took it easy and they didn't work hard enough.
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I don't believe that Bloc Québécois has won the majority of seats in Quebec in the last 20 years mainly because of the separatists (sovereignists or whatever else people want to call us, to me it's all the same) because if it was the case then we would have won a referendum.
This is why I say the raison d'être of the Bloc Québécois is the defense of the French Canadian interest in the ROC and not the Quebec sovereignty.
... and as long as there are people that feel more as French or British than as Canadian this will never stop.
Take a look at Switzerland: Three cultures, one country and they all feel as Swiss. Mainly because none of them found it useful to breed an inferiority complex.
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Mainly because none of them found it useful to breed an inferiority complex.
Is that how we're perceived in the rest of the world ? People who want to separate because of an inferiority complex ?
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... and as long as there are people that feel more as French or British than as Canadian this will never stop.
Take a look at Switzerland: Three cultures, one country and they all feel as Swiss. Mainly because none of them found it useful to breed an inferiority complex.
It isn't an inferiority complex at all... The Canada is an artificial construction where the two founding nations were recognized as equals with the same rights and protections. With the passing of the time one of them was outcast (the one who is responsible for the birth of this country) with the help of an alien Court System (by exemple when the federal stole us the Labrador and give it to the Newfoundlands as a gift for becoming part of the country) or the numerous interference of the federal government in the provincial fields of competence. Do I need to write here that we are not even a part of the new Constitution written in 1981?
Switzerland, Belgium or Great Britain are exemple that work because the different nations making them are treated equally. You don't have less rights in Switzerland depending of if you are of French, German or Italian culture...
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Are you serious? really? a taxes reduction of 2% is enough for you to vote for a party... WOW! God I "like" the me, me, me attitude. ... Pathethic
Does not the 'me me me attitude' not perfectly describe the Bloc? And since when is it a crime to base ones vote on the issues that are important to the voter? The relationship between politicians and voters has always very much been based on 'What have you done for me lately?' and if you ask the average citizen who does not make a huge emotional investment in politics you will find that is exactly how they base their decision. Things have been good for me and my family during the Tories time in office to date and so I'm willing to stick with the status quo until they somehow give me reason to change my mind or another party gives me a compelling reason to switch. And yet you ridicule my choice and reasons and call me pathetic because they don't happen to coincide with your own opinions. Personally I don't feel the need to resort to that as I can respect all peoples choices in politics, religion or otherwise even if I don't happen to agree with them. Given your declared disgust for 'smear tactics' and general 'dirty politicking' your vehemence towards me leads me to believe you'd be quite good at it... and that I don't respect.
If Quebec should ever gain their independence from Canada I shall declare that I believe they will be making a mistake but I shall wish them luck and they can take a proportionate share of Canada's deficit with them. ;)
With that, I shall return to the much more serene activity of posting movie reviews.
KC
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Kevin you read me wrong : I didn't wrote that you are pathetic (it's not my style at all), but that voting base on a 2% lowering of the GST compare to the negative things I've listed (and I could have listed a lot more) is pathetic. Take it any way you want but there is more than "what you have done for me" in politics, here we vote on government results not on little candy gift who aren't anyway since the 2% they gave was retaken somewhere else. So you have won nothing with this overall.
If Quebec should ever gain their independence from Canada I shall declare that I believe they will be making a mistake but I shall wish them luck and they can take a proportionate share of Canada's deficit with them. ;)
Of course we will... as we will take our share of the diverse canadian actif we have paid for.
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... and they can take a proportionate share of Canada's deficit with them. ;)
That wouldn't be the first time KC, we did take half of the debt when we were joined ;)
I have the feeling this discussion is turning into a Quebec vs Canada and I don't know if it's good or not but getting back to the original subject, which is the election of a conservative governement, tell me KC, don't you have a problem with the way Harper has tried to control the information ? Do you agree with him in forbidding government workers to show up on commitees when they're cited ?
Do you think it's acceptable to force decisions on independant organizations and have the directors fired if they don't obey ? Is it ok for a government to order that any printed document should now say "Harper Government" instead "Government of Canada" ?
Do you find it acceptable to withdraw the public funding of political parties ? To save 26 millions a year ? That's a ridiculous amount in Canada's budget and it has nothing to do with saving money, it's all about destroying the other parties. It this right ? Is it OK that a party uses the advantages of being in power to do things only to kill his opposition with no regards for democracy ?
Do you like that your country went from being one of the most respected to one the rest of the worlds almost laughs at ?
Should I say anything about culture ? Communications ? What's the point of having an independant organization like the CRTC if the government can void their decisions when it doesn't like it ? Wasn't avoiding that the whole point or making these organizations independant in the first place ?
Do you really want a government who's gonna spend your money and refuse to answer when asked how much and where ?
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... and they can take a proportionate share of Canada's deficit with them. ;)
That wouldn't be the first time KC, we did take half of the debt when we were joined ;)
I have the feeling this discussion is turning into a Quebec vs Canada and I don't know if it's good or not but getting back to the original subject, which is the election of a conservative governement, tell me KC, don't you have a problem with the way Harper has tried to control the information ? Do you agree with him in forbidding government workers to show up on commitees when they're cited ?
Do you think it's acceptable to force decisions on independant organizations and have the directors fired if they don't obey ? Is it ok for a government to order that any printed document should now say "Harper Government" instead "Government of Canada" ?
Do you find it acceptable to withdraw the public funding of political parties ? To save 26 millions a year ? That's a ridiculous amount in Canada's budget and it has nothing to do with saving money, it's all about destroying the other parties. It this right ? Is it OK that a party uses the advantages of being in power to do things only to kill his opposition with no regards for democracy ?
Do you like that your country went from being one of the most respected to one the rest of the worlds almost laughs at ?
Should I say anything about culture ? Communications ? What's the point of having an independant organization like the CRTC if the government can void their decisions when it doesn't like it ? Wasn't avoiding that the whole point or making these organizations independant in the first place ?
Do you really want a government who's gonna spend your money and refuse to answer when asked how much and where ?
All that and they still got elected with 40% of the popular vote! You can look back on every ruling government in Canada for the past 40 years of all political flavors and create an itemized list just as you have of scandals, back room dealings, misappropriation of tax payer money, creative accounting and the just general bending of the truth. That's just government and it's a reality. The voters choice is often picking the lesser of evils and the NDP as your new opposition party is proof of that. I'll be sure to come back with my own list of nefarious conduct in the future if and when your party is voted in. :thumbup:
KC
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In place of this why you don't give us a list of the good things they did? I believe it won't be a long one... and the recession thingy doesn't count as they aren't the one who put the bank industry regulations system in place.
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KC, they won the election with 40% of the vote because we have a crappy electoral system. It is illogical that one wins a majority government with a minority of votes. Regardless of anything else, this should be changed for Canada, all the provinces and all municipalities.
I won't deny that every other government before has done bad stuff but most of the times that's why they were kicked out down the line but that's a different issue IMO. I see a difference between kicking a government out because they've done bad stuff and voting for them knowing in advance they're gonna do it.
I didn't write my previous post as a list of stuff to pick on Harper, they were questions I was asking you. You voted for them and you're defending them now so I'm asking again, do you agree with that way of governing ?
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In place of this why you don't give us a list of the good things they did? I believe it won't be a long one... and the recession thingy doesn't count as they aren't the one who put the bank industry regulations system in place.
The bad will always be viewed as outweighing the good. The opposition parties and the various, biased media outlets will always ensure that. I already gave a sampling of my positives and was called pathetic for my troubles so I'll steer clear of that pitfall this time around and we'll just agree to disagree.
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I was right it's quite a short list...
So to resume in all the years they were in power the only good thing, according to you, they did is lowering the GST by 2%.
WOW what an impressive record :thumbup:
Too bad I can't go back in time and changed my vote, because it's the most awesome results I have ever seen for a canadian Government :laugh:
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I was right it's quite a short list...
So to resume in all the years they were in power the only good thing, according to you, they did is lowering the GST by 2%.
WOW what an impressive record :thumbup:
Too bad I can't go back in time and changed my vote, because it's the most awesome results I have ever seen for a canadian Government :laugh:
Sigh... My refusal to continue to play your game is an admission of nothing. You started this thread and the second someone (me) posts a conflicting opinion it instantly turns personal. Like I said, not everyone has a big emotional investment into the electoral process which obviously you do.
KC, they won the election with 40% of the vote because we have a crappy electoral system. It is illogical that one wins a majority government with a minority of votes. Regardless of anything else, this should be changed for Canada, all the provinces and all municipalities.
I won't deny that every other government before has done bad stuff but most of the times that's why they were kicked out down the line but that's a different issue IMO. I see a difference between kicking a government out because they've done bad stuff and voting for them knowing in advance they're gonna do it.
I didn't write my previous post as a list of stuff to pick on Harper, they were questions I was asking you. You voted for them and you're defending them now so I'm asking again, do you agree with that way of governing ?
No I don't particularly agree with or condone some of the items on your list. Nor am I surprised that they happened. Again, the different governing bodies over the years = same shit, different smell. Your argument that we don't know that if a different party gets voted in that they won't be corrupt is naive. History gives you the correct answer to that conjecture every time. I will say this about Harper... he is as vain a Prime Minister as we have ever had and yes!, he has done wicked things in the name of sticking his finger in the eye of the opposition and quite frankly I admire that. Politicians in any country are going to use their power to retain that power and that is fact. Harper just doesn't try to hide it. :laugh: If their actions are despicable enough, they will be voted out. That didn't happen on Monday so logic would dictate that enough people are ok with how he has conducted himself or they think the alternatives would be worse. I picked the Conservatives because I believe they are the most stable option right now given the still fragile state of the world's economy, especially in the United States and Japan where our own economy is so strongly tied in with. The spending platform of the NDP was scary and the Liberals are lost and wandering without direction.
My choice was very easy to make.
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not everyone has a big emotional investment into the electoral process which obviously you do.
Of course, I tend to take seriously the privilege to vote that I have. So I go beyond the slogan to be informed as any responsible citizen must do... This is why I watch the proceedings at the House of Common and the parliamentary committees, read the political magazine and newspapers. I don't let the fact that I am a nationalist interfere with my choice, by exemple in 1988 I've voted for the Progressive Conservative Party...
As I said you have read something personal where there wasn't, but if you think the hat fit you be me guess and try it...
You realize that 61.4% of the voting people didn't vote for the Reform Party disguise as the Conservative Party? So they don't represent the majority... But I guess that some people are happy to say : I don't care for the future generations since I pay 2% less in taxes.
No one is there to control them now so check your little dream world since they can do what they want. They don't care about you anymore, so beware to loose your little 2% who is so important for you...
Nice to see you repeat the false party line about the economy. I guess spending billion of dollars for unnecessary plane for the army (note they will not be made in the country so no job benefits), being in two wars that doesn't concern us and giving tax reduction to the oil industry is good for our economy....
Quite pathetic indeed... but not surprising.
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Ok Jimmy... you've got me hooked. I just have to know! Who is your choice to be this country's savior and why? You are quite proficient at pointing fingers but are not offering any viable solutions...
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Kevin you know already my answer :whistle:
To be honest whatever party you choose none of them can be consider the saviour of the Canada, but do we really need one? But if I have to choose a politician I want one that I can trust, so none of them : Michael Ignatieff is inexperimented, stephen harper is a little dictator and Jack Layton, even if he is a nice guy, is not Prime Minister material.
The last time I've voted for a "canadian" party was in 1988, because it was the last time a real coast-to-coast party was present and it was the Progressive Conservative. Since than we have a multitude of regional party : Bloc Québécois au Québec, Reform Party/Conservative in the central provinces, Liberal party in Ontario (OK not this time, but with a better chief I'm sure the province would became again a liberal bastion) and the New Democrats party in British Colombia and the Ontario too.
So I can't tell you for whom I would have vote if I would have your choices. But if I must go for someone I say the Liberals because of their economic expertise and the way they represent us internationally. Like I wrote none of the party has my confidence so it's like choosing the lesser of tree evils for me...
But bring back a real chief like Brian Mulroney was or someone like John Manley and I will be able to trust a canadian political party.
Be honest with me and recognize that Gilles Duceppe was the most qualified as a country Prime Minister. I'm sure that if he would have been with the liberal party many Anglo-Canadians would have voted for him (maybe even you).
I know it's not the answer you wanted, but I'm sure you understand how it is difficult for me to be in the role of a non-French Canadian.
You are quite proficient at pointing fingers...
I don't do that it's your perception Kevin.