# | Episode | Tom from here (http://www.dvdcollectorsonline.com/index.php/topic,626.msg103199.html#msg103199) | Matthias | Achim |
01 | Samson and Delilah | |||
02 | Automatic for the People | |||
03 | The Mousetrap | |||
04 | Allison from Palmdale | |||
05 | Goodbye to All That | |||
06 | The Tower Is Tall But the Fall Is Short | |||
07 | Brothers of Nablus | |||
08 | Mr. Ferguson Is Ill Today | |||
09 | Complications | |||
10 | Strange Things Happen at the One-Two Point | |||
11 | Self Made Man | |||
12 | Alpine Fields | |||
13 | Earthlings Welcome Here | |||
14 | The Good Wound | - | ||
15 | Desert Cantos | |||
16 | Some Must Watch, While Some Must Sleep | |||
17 | Ourselves Alone | |||
18 | Today Is the Day - Part 1 | |||
19 | Today Is the Day - Part 2 | |||
20 | To the Lighthouse | |||
21 | Adam Raised a Cain | |||
22 | Born to Run |
I keep being troubled by the actor who plays Cromartie; not only does he not come across a threatening to me, I even find he looks a bit like Michael Biehn in the first movie.
That would be Garret Dillahunt. I first saw him on HBO's Deadwood, where he played two very different roles, then on John from Cincinnati (also HBO). I find him to be a very remarkable actor and I think he is perfect as Cromartie.Is acting is fine. I was referring to the shot where he shows up behind Charley's wife after the phone call and I thought: He seems like a nice guy :slaphead:
BTW, don't worry that you are doing this all alone. I will definitely join you, maybe even later today.I was beginning to worry :laugh: Thanks, it's definitely more fun to compare notes. I believe Rich had also shown interest, I hope he'll find time to join, too. Others...? I can easily expand the ratings table....
Good review, I agree to every point you made.
Your second to last paragraph made me add the "Worst bit" to my review of episode 4.
Huh? Not sure how you read my comment, but I loved that scene in 2x01. We are obviously to assume that she fakes it and Sarah hammers that point home later. But it is exactly that insistence that makes you wonder.You're paragraph merely reminde me of the scene in episode for, where Cameron sheds a tear... I do entirely agree on the awesomeness of the scene in episode 1, when Cameron successfully fools John.
The entire plot of the dying guy busting in to deliver a message from the future, and the subsequent infiltration of the power plant made me roll my eyes so much, I missed the finer points of the episode. And than they ended the episode with a shot of our heroes staring at bloody (!) messages on a wall, outlining the future missions of the week. That really threw me off.´
First of all guys, can we add comments to the spoiler tags if the spoiler is not (only) about the current but also future episodes? having seen the episodes under discussion I felt safe and ended up reading Tom's comment about Cameron's scene (not 100% if it's the tears or the one from episode 1, but either way...) and Matthias' comment about Riley. Maybe I am reading too much into them, but it may now see things in a different light. Thank you :)
First of all guys, can we add comments to the spoiler tags if the spoiler is not (only) about the current but also future episodes?
BTW, shouldn't we agree that anything up to the reviewed episode is fair game and doesn't require a spoiler tag? While I left out some spoilerish things for 2x01 and 2x02, I'm not sure if it makes much sense in a dedicated thread. Just asking, I'm willing to do it either way.
lame excuse to show off the T-1000 (or is it a T-X...?) again.
Do terminators get bored? Cameron finds the center of the house, determines the timeframe for a paint job, and is eager to kill at least a bird (Maybe later?). That sounds like funny robot, but is has such a wry sense of humor that it doesn't feel out of place. Also noteworthy the perfectly timed "I don't swim" exchange with John much later in the episode.Oddly this didn't strike me as bad as tfhe tears in the other episode. I also enjoyed the humor coming from this. I think the explanation of this behavior (as it is differtfent from Season 1) is supposed to be the damaged chip.
As for Weaver and Ellison: I like that they take their time and advance that part of the story slowly. And Shirley Manson already seems much better here than in the first episode. Or it could be Richard T. Jones, who can make almost everything work, reflecting positively on her.I think it's the latter. While I enjoy Jones' perfomrance a lot I personally think Manson comes across rather wooden (well, she is supposed to be a robot, but still...).
Were you busy last week and will ctach up this week or should I slow down? I was planning to do a disc per week (according my Blu-ray set) but we can just do 2-3 episodes per week if that works better for you.
They take refuge in a shelter. During an apparently mandatory counselor session, more about Allison's past is revealed. There are again numerous intercuts between flashbacks of Allison's interrogation and the counselor talk. Cameron has now fully adapted the Allison persona and her crying while talking about her parents is a beautiful and sad moment that works perfectly for me, while Achim seems to think it is one of the worst scenes of the episode.It's not the worst scene of the episode. I don't mind the robot to pretend crying ("I lknow now why you cry." from T2), I just don't buy into Skynet giving the machines tear glands just to be ever so better in infiltration. This is not "A.I." where the robot is supposed to learn emotions, here it's just about infiltrate, kill.
one of the best episodes of the entire series, if not the best. Which is why it makes me kinda sad that Achim gave it his lowest rating yet.I guess I found there was too much of the other stroy lines dragging it down. Obviously your enthusiasm is concentrated on Cameron's path all the same, hardly pointing out Sarah's part. I also didn't have a problem with Ellison's story, it just was the smallest of all. Was I to rate Cameron's story alone the result would be different...
I just don't buy into Skynet giving the machines tear glands just to be ever so better in infiltration. This is not "A.I." where the robot is supposed to learn emotions, here it's just about infiltrate, kill.
Obviously your enthusiasm is concentrated on Cameron's path all the same, hardly pointing out Sarah's part.
Now, refresh my memory, what is a T1? Or did you mean there was a nod to the first film? :headscratch:
BTW, the Blu-rays mostly have 5 episodes per disc, but I'll settle for 4 to match your pacing...
Yes, I meant the first film and the terminator killing off all the Sarah Connors.:slaphead: Of course.
Well, since you and I are apparently the only ones doing this, we can keep this varying around 4+ episodes per week. If one gets ahead more than 2 episodes he just waits for the other to catch up.Good plan! :thumbup:
6. The Tower Is Tall But The Fall Is Short
...
Can anyone tell me what the title of this episode refers to?
Well, Weaver's new project is called Babylon and I remember her building a big Lego tower for her daughter, so I assume it's a reference to the tower of Babel, which Men build to reach heaven and then God punished them for their hybris. On a more literal level, it could also refer to the suicide theme of the episode. 2nd best episode title after "Mr. Ferguson Is Ill Today".Thanks for the explanation. Yes, there was a Lego Tower involved. I found most of the other episode titles to more literate than this one, so I wondered what I was missing.
BTW, I'm glad you liked it and I'm really looking forward to rewatch it, because I remember it as another contender for best of the series.
.... names they found on a wall (am I supposed to know who wrote them there? because I don't).
(is that flashback something from season 1 or is it made up for the purpose of this episode?)
The writers have finally gotten a handle on the Weaver character that matches Shirley Manson's acting abilities. As a result, she is really great here. Also, the child actress playing Savannah is a real find.That is exactly what I was trying to say in my comments! That is why I found her to be "wooden" before (not exactly sure if I wrote that a<nd too lazy to re-read) and now the writers found how to utilize that.
The real threat in this episode comes from Cromartie, whose reappearance I highly enjoyed.
...and it is shockingly funny how she [Cameron] deals with the robbers...
Sarah at the same time as an unfittingly weak moment.
Ellison ... The lifting of this story line to a biblical level is a bit out whack and I am not sure what they are trying to say.
Very good point there. I just figured her to be smarted than that. Well, at least she'll very soon enough how foolish she was...Sarah at the same time as an unfittingly weak moment.I wouldn't call it unfitting, on the contrary. As badass as she sometimes appears, she never has killed anyone, not even Dyson in T2. In fact, she is the only one who hasn't. John killed Sarkissian, Derek killed at least Andy Goode, even Jesse just killed Moishe (and in that was as ruthless as Cameron).
Matthias has pointed out before it's his favorite and I can at least confirm from my side that it's the best episode yet.
Well, if he wasn't doing things like running away without telling anyone, there wouldn't be any exciting plots
I always enjoy the "bits and pieces" approach to tell a story, presenting us with segments, each following another person, that slightly overlap. This way important information can occasionally be left out only to be revealed later on. Kudos to the writer team to pulling it off very effectively
Only now, two or three episodes after the incident I realize that Ellison's role in all this must be bigger than we can imagine so far. Triggered by his question to Sarah about his role...
I was only referring to the title, not the episode itself, although, as evident from my rating, I do consider it another excellent episode. As for the title: I didn't catch on to it right from the start. I found it oddly fitting to describe Cromartie's demise and I remember having that sentence stuck in my head for a while like a piece of music. But it wasn't until I rewatched S1 that I noticed it is the very first line of Cromartie in the pilot, when he appeared as a substitute teacher (and was played by another actor). Which fits nicely with the way the characters in this episode try to replace something they have lost.Excellent! :thumbup:
More importantly, he would just be dead.Well, yeah, there is that. :laugh:
One of the bits that gets repeated during the segments are Ellison's words to Sarah when he opens the trunk: "Sarah Connor? James Ellison. I *need* you to come with me." But when they talk during Cromartie's burial, Sarah refuses to give him the guidance he so desperately seeks. As he walks away, he will undoubtedly return to Weaver. And with the ominous music cue accompanying it and the way the takedown of Cromartie was shown, one can be pretty sure what will happen. However, Cromartie's chip definitely is destroyed.:hmmmm: The way you put it makes one think that Sarah is partly responsible too, since she could have brought Ellisonm on her side and sadly refused to do so.
Sarah's dreams did make sense to me on first viewing, they do so even more when considering the whole series, but I will leave that part out.Thanks for the explanation. At least it makes more sense now and maybe it will be regarded differently duiring a future viewing.
The counterpoint to that is young Fisher. As Ellison's VO drones on to justify his choice (we can't allow history to repeat itself), we see young Fisher thrown in a cell, ensuring he is available to the machines on Judgment Day.:slaphead: How could I have missed that :stars:
:hmmmm: The way you put it makes one think that Sarah is partly responsible too, since she could have brought Ellisonm on her side and sadly refused to do so.
I don't think Weaver needs the chip, at least that's what I felt. She just needs the body to advance her technology there.
Thanks for the explanation.
QuoteThe counterpoint to that is young Fisher. As Ellison's VO drones on to justify his choice (we can't allow history to repeat itself), we see young Fisher thrown in a cell, ensuring he is available to the machines on Judgment Day.:slaphead: How could I have missed that :stars:
On second thought, I may have misread that. When we see young Fisher, it doesn't look so much like he is in a prison cell, but in a psych ward. Which still serves as a couterpoint to Ellison's VO, but only because it is the same thing that happened to Sarah (and Dr. Silberman). I admit, I like my first idea better, because it makes the "different futures" more ambigous, but it seems that wasn't what they were going for.Now, that you mention this, this I remember. Him telling some people asking questions what had happened to him, realizing at the same time that he was in big trouble for such outrageous story.
Achim, if you haven't seen the episode yet, you may want to postpone reading this.Trust me, I will :) In fact, I only opened the thread accidentally and then the red text caught my eye.
(my lowest rating yet)
Ouch. I'm pretty sure I will disagree when I catch up later today.I could imagine. Looking forward to read your thoughts.
BTW, there is an error in the rating table. My rating for 2x10 was , not .Corrected.
Upon the photograph of the T-888 she stumbles by accident. At first, he doesn't make sense to her either. But he is a machine. Machines are predictable, easy to figure out. And that, Achim, is exactly why it takes her only a night to piece together the clues.Yeah, piecing them together so quick I get, but the physical procedure of finding them. While she may immediately know what she is looking for, but they need to find it...
I'm very glad the show doesn't speed up and move along, as Achim said. It wouldn't be the show I've come to admire.Maybe my comment sounded bigger than how I meant it. I did point out that those moments never lasted very long for a reason. Almost like in Lost, where nothing happens for so long until it almost gets unbearable and then they throw in loads of excitement. Almost in a good way ;) (the important key for such design always is, to know when the viewers mind is about to wander off..., they clearly did)
Another thing that bugged me is that first they to spoil the suspense by giving certain information "accidentally" too early (who is the terminator after...?) just to give us an entire different solution later; it felt cheap.
They cold have made the "past" segments more suspenseful if they hadn't revealed that so early. Also, there was the scene from the future where they show Lauren giving Derek the injection, therefore making us think it's her the termonator is after and then it turned out the mother. While the switch is cheap, it's nothing new, again it would have made the cabin scenes more exciting if they hadn't revealed a target so early.Another thing that bugged me is that first they to spoil the suspense by giving certain information "accidentally" too early (who is the terminator after...?) just to give us an entire different solution later; it felt cheap.
Erm, no. At that point, we know (from the now-frame) that Lauren's father is already dead and that the terminator is still after pregnant Anne and Lauren.
So the episode ends with two major characters bleeding to death - and an UFO? Those who watched the original airing had to wait two months for the next episode. Bummer.You think people really believed an UFO arrived there....? That thought didn't cross my mind for a second.
You think people really believed an UFO arrived there....? That thought didn't cross my mind for a second.
Well, not of the alien variety. But it wasn't clear if Sarah was haluzinating or if it was real.Let's say, I hope I was right on my assumption that it was a trick of her mind.
BTW, sorry for the slow progress. I will most likely catch up to 2x14 tomorrow.No worries. I have a week off because of the Lunar New year and happily watch other stuff (like my all-in-one-day Lord of the Rings marathon).
QuoteBTW, sorry for the slow progress. I will most likely catch up to 2x14 tomorrow.No worries. I have a week off because of the Lunar New year and happily watch other stuff (like my all-in-one-day Lord of the Rings marathon).
LoTR? One day? Good grief, man! :o 12 hours of viewing... whoa!It was quite good actually. I got up "early" and watched the first one with a bit of breakfast at the start, second one involved lunch and third one dinner :laugh: Basically it was 9-22 :shrug: Since it's 6 DVDs the breaks came very naturally.
After Riley is removed from the hospital from Jesse we get to see that she has way more attachment to Jesse than John, something Jesse rather dislikes. Are we still missing pieces in the puzzle about them?
If you enjoy watching Weaver slaughter thirty people in one episode you’re obligated to go to their funeral in the next.
It is Sarah's more vulnerable side that gains her the help of the doctor, Felicia. I didn't mind the abusive angle they played with Felicia, but the ending with the sheriff was a misstep. I guess the writers (or the network) wanted some resolution to that storyline, but not only was it severely overdone, it also took away from that final moment between Sarah and Felicia, where Sarah takes it all back (Was anything you said the truth? - I got shot.)Reading your comments made me realize just how ambiguous Sarah's line actually is and it's up to Felicia to pick her interpretation (ultimately leading to the intended the result, obviously). On the one hand "I got shot" could say, that she was wounded and hurt and everything said was just to please the doctor and make her continue. On the other hand, it could mean that she didn't lie, as having a near-death experience would make lying pointless.
BTW, Achim, I have also watched 2x15 and 2x16 now and I will post comments later.Good, now you are two ahead. I will start soon with the next disc and then go rather quickly through those five episodes, putting me one or two ahead when I am done with that.
BTW, I will leave for a short trip 95 days)
on next Saturday and am now contemplating whether I should try to finish off entirely before that or leave the last disc (3 episodes) for after my return (which would just give me enough time before another shirt trip (3 days) to Hong Kong...
:laugh:BTW, I will leave for a short trip 95 days)
Well, see you again in May then. ;)
There is however two lovely bits in there regarding Weaver.
With this view, I'm in the minority. Tom and DJ Doena have already expressed their dislike of this particular arc on this forum, although I'm glad that Achim has enjoyed the first half of it. I'm curious whether that enjoyment continues or if he joins the rank of the naysayers.I hadn't read your post until after I wrote mine. So, now it's clear that I am a naysayer ;) (I might want to look up Karsten's thread and add his ratings to the first post.) At least to the last part of this arc; as opposed to at least Tom, who apparently didn't like this triple set of episodes about Sarah at all.
For an action show about killer robots from the future, continuing the Sarah psychogram after a two-month break certainly was a risky thing to do. IIRC, the show lost a lot of viewers at that time, but I'm certainly thankful they sticked with it, even if it meant cancellation. Don't get me wrong, I like the robot action as much as the next guy and I enjoy a good scifi-arc, but ultimately that's all secondary to me.I can clearly see why they might have lost viewers after this episode. This episode does clearly not work as the opener after a break. maybe somewhere in the middle of the second run it may have been received better, but I would guess may viewer felt just like me.
This episode does clearly not work as the opener after a break.
... but what did we gain with this episode?
Only that Weaver is now aware of Sarah getting close and wants her dead...?
Just to clarify: The mid-season finale was 2x13 Earthlings Welcome Here. The opener after the 2-month break was 2x14 The Good Wound.:bag:
I think I answered that a little in my comments on the episode.Well, yeah, of course we gain lots of insights into Sarah's mind, but the plot is not forwarded in any shape or form. I missed Ellison, Weaver,...
The guard said something about "her" (the person giving him commands) wanting "her" (Sarah) dead. I assumed at the time that it would be too much of a coincidence if another group would have a female leader as well.Only that Weaver is now aware of Sarah getting close and wants her dead...?
Not really a spoiler, just pointing out some things established so far:(click to show/hide)
The guard said something about "her" (the person giving him commands) wanting "her" (Sarah) dead. I assumed at the time that it would be too much of a coincidence if another group would have a female leader as well.
... but the plot is not forwarded in any shape or form.
WINSTON (Talking on cell phone):Thanks for posting that, don't have to find it myself :) I had assumed that the last line referred to the person giving the command to kill Sarah. Reading it out now it could as well mean that he thinks Sarah is suicidal in a way and wants to die anyway... :hmmmm:
It's her son. He's the one who helped her blow up the facility. He's the one we want. (Pause)
We'll give him a few more hours to show up. (Pause)
I don't know. Maybe three. (Pause)
She gave me a few problems. Nothing I couldn't handle. (Pause)
Yeah. I guess we don't need her anymore. (Pause)
No. He can trace her cell phone to this location even without her alive. Makes no difference to me. (Pause)
It's not a problem. I'll take care of it right now. (Ends the phone call)
Hell, it's what she wants.
Reading it out now it could as well mean that he thinks Sarah is suicidal in a way and wants to die anyway... :hmmmm:
I am afraid to read this thread as I never seen season 2 yet (just the first 1 or 2 episodes of the season)... but my set is arriving later today. Looks like you all are pretty much done with the season? Think I should just tack my reviews onto the thread as well? Or you think it would be better for me to do my own separately?I certainly don't mind if you add them here, but since mine and Matthias' and my reviews are almost in sync and yours won't, but that's not entirely important and has been done like that in other threads. Then again, Matthias still has 5 and I have 3 more to do, at your speed you'll finish before us :laugh:
Then again, Matthias still has 5 and I have 3 more to do, at your speed you'll finish before us :laugh:
I enjoyed every second of this episode (except for the very last one, actually)
I enjoyed every second of this episode (except for the very last one, actually)
What was the last second again? And why didn't you enjoy it?
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Unrelated, but since I am typing. Today I looked at both sides of the Keep Case cover of this and noticed at first that Cameron can be seen on front and back. Then I realized that she can be seen with Team Connor on the front but with Team Metal on the back :o :hmmmm:I just remembered having made the above statement and wanted to confirm how much sense the covers actually make, after the last episode. :thumbup: Good stuff.
I don't recall exactly when I started to guessing it; I think I was pretty sure around the John Henry history talk with Ellison in the elevator. But there were a lot of other little things that pointed into that direction early on.Looking back, there was indeed several instances in the last two episodes that pointed towards that. So while the actual reveal still came somewhat surprising, I was able to go with it immediately. I guess re-watching the entire show in the future will reveal many more earlier on.
Matthias, are you still posting the last few reviews? If not, maybe at least post your ratings so I can add them to the first post in the thread?
2x18 Today Is The Day Part 1 | |
2x19 Today Is The Day Part 2 | |
2x20 To the Lighthouse | |
2x21 Adam Raised a Cain | - |
2x22 Born to Run | - |
An excellent finish, which ends the series properly and makes good sense;
If you mean the "dream" sequence where she saw the hunter killer, then yes, that made more sense then I initially expected.